Gleef ([info]gleef) wrote in [info]dark_christian,
2005-10-03 13:29:00
  • Previous
  • Memorize
  • Share
  • Next

Harriet Miers and Exodus

According to our President, his most recent Supreme Court appointment, Harriet Miers is associated with Exodus Ministries, an organizing body for an number of Dominionist "Ex-Gay" groups.

Harriet has also earned a reputation for her deep compassion and abiding sense of duty. In Texas, she made it her mission to support better legal representation for the poor and under-served. As president of the Dallas Bar, she called on her fellow lawyers to volunteer and staff free neighborhood clinics. She led by example. She put in long hours of pro bono work. Harriet Miers has given generously of her time and talent by serving as a leader with more than a dozen community groups and charities, including the Young Women's Christian Association, Child Care Dallas, Goodwill Industries, Exodus Ministries, Meals on Wheels and the Legal Aid Society. [emphasis added]
    --From the official transcript of the nomination speech on the Whitehouse's website

Can anyone find more detail on this connection?

(Thanks to [info]pooperman for noticing this.)

Update: Apparently the group she's associated with is actually Exodus Ministries, a religious group working with ex-convicts (thank you [info]helenangel). The group still troubles me, and I am still interested in details.

Update 2: According to Slate, Miers has been an active member of Valley View Christian Church, a non-denominational 1,500 seat megachurch in Dallas, for 25 years. How can we tell if VVCC is an Assembly of God church, or other dominionist bent?

Also, according to the same article, James Dobson and Focus on the Family have already endorsed Miers. I find Focus on the Family to be very reliable at endorsing positions and people I disagree with.

Tags: dobson, focus on the family, judicial, megachurch, politics

  • Post a new comment

    Error

    Comments allowed for members only

    Anonymous comments are disabled in this journal

    switch

    Your reply will be screened

     
    Help
  • 22 comments

[info]helenangel

October 3 2005, 17:51:15 UTC 6 years ago

Exodus Ministries IS NOT Exodus International.
Go here to see Harriet Miers' wikipedia entry.

Exodus Ministries is a non-profit, non-denominational organization that helps rehabilitation & mainstreaming of ex-convicts (and their families) back into regular society. It does not have any affiliation with Exodus International, which is the association you're thinking of and have referenced above.

[info]sunfell

October 3 2005, 18:03:33 UTC 6 years ago

Good catch! It always pays to do our research and homework. And a lot of these sound-alike organizations can catch us flatfooted if we're not careful. Stay sharp!

[info]helenangel

October 3 2005, 18:15:11 UTC 6 years ago

Indeed. As soon as I heard the nomination I started doing my research on her. =)

[info]hephaestos

October 3 2005, 18:20:44 UTC 6 years ago

That Wikipedia article, on the other hand, is not at all encouraging (see "nomination concerns").

[info]helenangel

October 3 2005, 18:35:47 UTC 6 years ago

My hope here lies in the fact that a) she could be worse and b) she is a single woman with a highly educated background. She has just enough going for her that the Christian Coalition can't rally against her but also just enough going for her that liberal activists can't pin anything on her. We shall see how her hearings play, however.

Plus, I don't think we can totally discount Roberts yet. Yes, he is a conservative, however he is also very libertarian in nature. Yes, his wife is a raving anti-choice activist (or was) but I'm hoping he'll surprise us and be a fair judge.

[info]divabel

October 3 2005, 18:43:30 UTC 6 years ago

"She could be worse".

Well, depends on what issues are important to you. Personally, I think she's worse than Roberts when it comes to abortion.

Miers led bid to revisit abprtion stance.

As a woman, I am thoroughly terrified.

[info]wolfsinger2k

October 3 2005, 18:49:03 UTC 6 years ago

She also seems to have some info on Bush's National Guard scandal. Read this:

Miers re: NG scandal

[info]helenangel

October 3 2005, 19:26:41 UTC 6 years ago

Not surprising in the least. Bush gives his sweetest brownies to the people who have the most dirt on him.

[info]helenangel

October 3 2005, 19:20:02 UTC 6 years ago

The saving grace we have here is that her move could have been politically motivated, especially since she led this around the same time that she was elected the first woman president of the Texas Bar. This was a very controversial move in Texas at the time.

Also, interestingly enough, she was briefly romantically linked to Nathan Hecht in 92. Hecht is an Elder at Valley View Christian Church, which was also Harriet's church. However, they were no longer together as of 95 and in 98, she supported the Democratic party. According to church records, Harriet stopped attending in early 95. This falls in line with quotes from the minister of Valley View who stated she had only spent a decade at the church.

This, of course, leads me to believe that her service both in the church and in leading such a position was heavily influenced by her then-boyfriend. Notice also that she upholding the status-quo of the time in taking the neutral stance and not saying it should be opposed, but that it should be brought to vote by the members of the association.

My theories, of course, are all speculation. I foresee her lack of judicial experience being more of a point of note than her personal views on abortion. However, I don't think we can discount her or support her until we hear what comes from her.

[info]2_the_rescue

October 3 2005, 22:54:05 UTC 6 years ago

I think both conservatives and liberals take this action completely out of context. The American Bar Association is not a regulatory authority, but a private membership organization for lawyers. Just as with all lawyer groups, a dedicated few tend to stir up a crisis, there is a fight, and a few Big Wigs come into the picture pleading for neutrality in order to keep down the mess. That is all she advocated: a return to the neutral view once held by the ABA. Basically, it says nothing.

I do not think it is proper for an organization like the ABA to make a statement regarding abortion. It doesn't vote or write policy. It should do what it does best: manage practice groups, print practice material and help lawyers network. I once joined it for those resources; it never occurred to me to look up its group think on abortion.

[info]hephaestos

October 3 2005, 18:56:09 UTC 6 years ago

Yes, I'm actually somewhat optimistic about Roberts.

I'm not so sure about the highly educated background however. this interview didn't exactly give me the impression of her being a mental giant.

[info]helenangel

October 3 2005, 19:28:39 UTC 6 years ago

Well, she said Bush was one of the most brilliant people she's ever known. That in and of itself brings doubt to my mind that she has sound judgement. ;)

[info]gleef

October 3 2005, 18:59:30 UTC 6 years ago

Exodus Ministries

OK, that definately appears to be a different organization. It still strikes me as creepy though. First of all, when a group describes itself as "non-denominational", I've found more often than not, it's a stealth dominionist group. Their site appears to have much dominionist symbolism throughout it.

Most importantly, they require their participants go to church or ministry-related programs four times per week. This leaves a huge question in my mind.

Let's say a prisoner is getting out of jail, and seeks their help, they furnish the parolee with housing, child care and schooling. Then the prisoner goes to the church they recommend, and decide that this church isn't for them. They aren't allowed to seek their spirituality on their own, they may or may not be permitted to go to a different church. Enforcing this appears to be a huge threat: they can throw you out of your home, and remove your access to child care and schooling.

I would like to know more about this group before I consider it to be better than Exodus International. They sound pretty dominionist to me, and could be equally willing to coerce vulnerable people into their religious groups.

[info]helenangel

October 3 2005, 19:23:34 UTC 6 years ago

Re: Exodus Ministries

The thing is, though, is that ex-cons have to apply for this. They are going into the program knowing it is a Christian program and that it is for Christian rehabilitation. It wouldn't be very smart of someone who was interested in Buddhism to go into a Christian reform program.

[info]gleef

October 3 2005, 19:45:03 UTC 6 years ago

Re: Exodus Ministries

Sure, but what about someone who is a mainstream Presbyterian or such, applying because they figure "We're all Christians here", and they need some help. Suddenly, who knows what sort of church they might be told to go to? Southern Baptist? Assembly of God "Non-Denominational"?

They give very little indication of what they are teaching these people, and combining it with very valuable support. That makes me very uneasy.

[info]helenangel

October 3 2005, 19:56:56 UTC 6 years ago

Re: Exodus Ministries

Their website doesn't say specifically but when a person signs up for a program, it will otherwise the person can sue the provider for breech of contract. If the Presbyterian goes in there and sees that, he/she doesn't have to apply for it. If they do not set forth these terms and then break their end of their contract, they can be sued. Most non-profits have very specific guidelines because of this- the last thing they want is legal retaliation.

In short, it is my opinion that everyone who signs up for any kind of service should always ask these questions before they apply. Before you enroll yourself in something, you should always be aware of what is expected of you. If the rules change without notification, the liability falls on the organization. If you just don't like the rules you agreed to abide by, the liability falls on you.

[info]dogemperor

October 3 2005, 20:37:40 UTC 6 years ago

Re: Exodus Ministries

Seeing as one of the founding members is AoG, and the program that is used is "Alpha Ministries" (a program commonly promoted in the AoG for purposes of stealth evangelism), I'm willnig to put money on AoG "non-denominational".

[info]dogemperor

October 3 2005, 20:38:33 UTC 6 years ago

Re: Exodus Ministries

You'd be right to be cautious--see my report on groups Exodus Ministries is linked to (in particular, with the AoG).

[info]nagisa_kaworu

October 3 2005, 17:55:03 UTC 6 years ago

Similar name; but not the same group

http://www.chrisgeidner.com/blog/archive/004827.html
http://www.waynebesen.com/2005/10/ex-gay-leader-denies-miers-is-involved.html

We don't quite know who or what she is [aside from never having been any kind of a judge before]; however, she is clean as far as this charge is concerned.

[info]ellid

October 3 2005, 17:59:43 UTC 6 years ago

She is so mainstream it hurts. And although I know nothing abouther, I'll give her this much: being the female managing partner of a white-shoe law firm in Texas means she is *tough*.

[info]dogemperor

October 3 2005, 20:36:06 UTC 6 years ago

a) As noted (and confirmed on Ex-Gay Watch and Human Rights Campaign, this is technically a different Exodus Ministries than Exodus International (the "de-gaying" group).

b) However, I'd *not* say this one is much better--possibly, in some instances, worse.

Among other things, to put it mildly, this would be considered a "high demand" group (per their own website).

This is also yet another group to which non-Protestants need not apply. Per http://img-srv.everestwebworks.com/w2/Pictures/My%20Files/1023197.1/eBook%20-%20Adobe.pdf the group also seems to have official sanction from the Texas government (extremely worrying, as the governor and much of the state Assembly are dominionists).

The group is also endorsed by a group called Alpha USA, which is apparently a charismatic (as in "tongues talking", not as in "friendly") group specialising in stealth evangelism and with support from some very worrying groups (http://www.alphausa.org/localoffices/news.asp?iLocationID=1 has a list (endorsements include from known dominionist Chuck Colson, Campus Crusade for Christ (which is not only dominionist but a coercive religious group), Youth With A Mission (a coercive religious group associated with Mercy Ships and Campus Crusade for Christ), and the Vineyard Churches (a group of dominionist "non-denominational" pentecostal churches explicitly associated with the Toronto/Brownsville/Yoido Full Gospel "third wave" insanity)).

The present religious director of Exodus Ministries is in a church associated with Youth With A Mission (which as has been noted in past is a dominionist, coercive group). The church's links section is also particularly telling, as both Focus on the Family and multiple other dominionist-friendly sites (including a curriculum designer for the AoG, a dominionist ISP, a dominionist "pray for America" group that has links to practically every other dominionist group of note in the US) are listed.

Of particular note--the former executive director of Exodus Ministries, Jerry Groom--who is also the head of chaplaincy for the *entire* Texas prison system--explicitly endorses the stealth evangelism material from Alpha (which, despite claims it is "non-denominational", IS explicitly skewed towards an Avengelical/charismatic viewpoint).

Alpha USA also apparently supports dominionist groups itself, and explicitly is targeting hurricane evacuees (including explicit support from the group for Pat Robertson's Operation Blessing--used in past as a front for transport of blood diamonds, and reported on in the Big List)

[info]dogemperor

October 3 2005, 20:36:30 UTC 6 years ago

Another danger signal--Exodus Ministries is explicitly endorsed by the dominionist AoG and in fact apparently the former executive director and founder is apparently AoG himself. (The person in question is also apparently now the director of the entire chaplaincy program for Texas' prison system.).

(This is of note because, among other things, the AoG has a known habit of both "sheep stealing" and stealth evangelism initiatives targeting other churches--often disguised as "non-denominational" efforts.)

There are reports that the person associated with Exodus Ministries who is head of the chaplaincy program may have prohibited non-Avengelicals--including observant Jews--from practicing their religion and may have attempted retribution against them.

There are a few other links to other groups, including a group called Texas Restorative Ministries

http://www.preciousheart.net/aftercare.htm also lists the group, with specific association with Jerry Groom. (Yes, it is the same group, as evidenced by a more rent address listing.)

So yes, you were RIGHT to have caution.
Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Facebook Twitter More login options
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…